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Welcome Joe Long of Hackerboxes!
- Chris and Joe met (in person) at the vendor area of DEF CON 26
- 0h 0m 26s
- Hackerboxes is a subscription service for people who want to build electronics!
- 0h 1m 15s
- It’s not solely security focused, but often has elements of security.
- 0h 3m 3s
- It’s also not just getting started folks
- 0h 4m 7s
- Used to teach engineering
- 0h 6m 9s
- Joe started as an engineer, going to school at CalTech
- 0h 7m 3s
- AppleII on BBS
- 0h 7m 9s
- Eventually Joe got into IP law
- 0h 7m 34s
- He wanted to build a service the helped Build up the lab
- 0h 8m 49s
- Model car kit vs Lego kit
- 0h 10m 42s
- Most suggestions come from users
- 0h 15m 41s
- Sourcing
- 0h 17m 25s
- Theme sometimes come after the fact
- 0h 17m 47s
- Constraints
- Under a pound
- Fit in the box shape (10 inches)
- Cost constraint
- Educational
- Coolness
- 0h 18m 42s
- Yagi antenna in HB0023
- Don’t ship power supplies/ batteries
- 0h 22m 9s
- FAQ
- 0h 25m 50s
- Wielding electricity
- 0h 30m 41s
- Hackerboxes team
- 0h 32m 39s
- They employ someone in Shenzhen to help with sourcing from China
- 0h 35m 31s
- IP attorney
- 0h 41m 0s
- Do you really want a patent?
- 0h 44m 22s
- patents are sometying you use to protect and asset to sell it
- 0h 44m 58s
- chattel
- 0h 45m 35s
- copyright is a simple form of IP
- 0h 45m 58s
- useful, non obvious
- 0h 47m 58s
- Patent troll
- 0h 48m 50s
- Using a patent as a hammer
- 0h 50m 8s
- just to get started, 6 figures
- 0h 50m 48s
- Silicon Valley episode about the Patent Troll
- 0h 51m 53s
- Will try to talk them out of it
- 0h 54m 8s
- Disclosure meeting
- 0h 54m 46s
- 6 wheels instead of 4
- 0h 55m 8s
- “Need in the art”
- 0h 55m 15s
- “Unexpected result”
- 0h 55m 33s
- Novel is “necessary but not sufficien”
- 0h 55m 51s
- Utility patent – useful, novel and non obvious
- 0h 57m 1s
- Limited monopoly
- 0h 59m 35s
- patent office is giving a “reason for allowance”
- 0h 59m 43s
- Joe writes claims that capture the engineering terms
- 1h 3m 27s
- Don’t want to allow people to “design around”
- 1h 4m 6s
- Patent attorneys see new products every 4 – 6 days
- 1h 6m 20s
- Software patents
- 1h 9m 5s
- Patents for Google Wallet and Bing Maps
- 1h 9m 34s
- Design vs Utility patent
- 1h 10m 53s
- Data analytics example
- 1h 13m 15s
- Machine or transformation test
- 1h 17m 1s
- international patent harmonization
- 1h 17m 17s
- Abstract concepts are never patentable
- 1h 19m 37s
- It’s tricky to read patents
- 1h 21m 21s
- If there’s an area of technology you like, you might want to read the patent
- 1h 23m 17s
- Pro se patents
- 1h 23m 53s
- Patently obvious
- 1h 24m 27s
- The funnel
- 1h 26m 5s
- $20K for patenting process
- 1h 26m 17s
- 70% get issued of that 1% who get through
- 1h 26m 27s
- Patent granted (probably to a big company)
- 1h 26m 44s
- longtechlaw.com
- 1h 33m 55s
- USPTO
- 1h 34m 10s
- Hackerboxes.com
- 1h 34m 36s
- @hackerboxes
- 1h 35m 41s
Looks like just another subscription service which sells cheap Chinese stuff direct. Physiological manipulation of selling a surprise and ignored periodic costs aside, doesn’t appear to have much value.
I see a $60 kit with just stickers, a beanie hat, a $1 USB adapter, and an opensource PCB kit which Sparkfun sells for $8. Looks like if you go with a $44 monthly plan, most kits have a $10 to $30 markup just for the convenience of finding and ordering it for you.
Interesting FAQ. No returns allowed. If you feel the kit was not worth it or you made a mistake building the kit…. feel free to unsubscribe, no refund, pick a different hobby. No exaggeration, read the FAQ.
Patents were intended to prevent information loss, first. Rewarding ‘inventors’ was just the mechanism to accomplish that. The patent system doesn’t work when the patent holder lack funds though. Enter NPE (patent trolls). They’re useful because it’s often the only way a small patent holder can get rewarded. NPEs are morally neutral. The core issue occurs when shit patent attorneys grant patents which should never have been granted or allows ‘updates’ to an older patent with new claims.
High first pass patent rejection is ENTIRELY due to fund PTO fund generation. There were leaked emails proving this. MOST granted patents can easily be defeated because they contain claims that were previously patented. So, NO, patent attorneys are not just rejecting everything because they’re thorough.
IMHO patenting software is BS. Software shouldn’t even be covered under copyright. It’s no different than a cooking recipe or maths formula.
Looks like just another comment from a jaded curmudgeon who thinks far more of himself than anyone else does. I’m curious, what have you managed to achieve in your life so far?
Cool Bro, it seems like you’re a little confused.
“An opensource PCB kit which Sparkfun sells for $8” – Actually, no, that HackerBox includes five opensource PCB kits, plus another exclusive PCB designed just for that box. It also includes three breakout modules, eight cables, and two speakers that you did not list. There are two entirely separate projects to build and several other experiments. You don’t even seem to understand what you are looking at. Thousands of us have found HackerBoxes to be an extremely great deal and an amazing learning opportunity. If you don’t like it, or don’t understand it, you shouldn’t buy it.
“Interesting FAQ. No returns allowed.” – Why would you ever return a kit? Would you return a box of cake mix if you burned the cake? Would you subscribe to magazine, but then expect to return the April edition because you didn’t like it? Did you even listen to these guys? You learn more when you fail. It’s about learning, not returning things. If you took some classes at a college, would you expect to be able to return your courses? Would you complain that the professors just ordered chalk form China and marked it up 50,000% to “sell the cheap stuff direct” while presenting lectures? Do you always miss the point entirely?
“The core issue occurs when shit patent attorneys grant patents which should never have been granted” – Examiners grant patents, not Attorneys. Attorneys represent the application “against” the grating authority. Your ideas here are not only incorrect in spirit, they are entirely backwards.
“Software shouldn’t even be covered under copyright. It’s no different than a cooking recipe or maths formula.” – Actually recipes and math are covered under copyright. Again, your knowledge is so badly formed, it’s confusing to capture how wrong it is. Regarding what can be patented, the US legal system, including the SCOTUS, disagrees with you. That shouldn’t surprise anyone since you don’t seem to even understand the words you are using.
Instead of arguing against everything you hear, you’d do well to open up, listen, and learn.
Joe?,
I don’t see a counterpoint to argue.
What knowledge is “badly formed”? I think you mean my opinion was badly formed, correct?
Recipes and math formulas not covered under copyright:
https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html
https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2015/03/24/recipes-copyright-and-plagiarism/
https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ31.pdf
https://paleoflourish.com/recipe-copyright/
People outside of the “grating authority” don’t bother to differentiate between examiners and attorneys. Not sure how that is important to your point though. Please explain which idea is incorrect or backwards. I would love to learn.
HackerBox#0037:
https://hackerboxes.com/collections/past-hackerboxes/products/hackerbox-0037-waverunner
I see a signal generator board, amp board, LED audio indicator board, a couple breakout boards, and some other cheap junk for $60. Is there more I’m missing?
Returning items which didn’t live up to marketing or even expectations is a customer satisfaction thing. Since your customers are learning about electronics, they don’t understand a kit’s worth even if they knew which one they were getting. They don’t know if $60 for that box is good value. Because of this, most of these ‘surprise’ learning kit companies have good return policies. Something like “Satisfaction Guaranteed”. Although this is outside of customer screw ups, most include the ‘consumption of the kit’. To that point, why are no additional $0.001 components included?
I’m glad you’ve had success with their/your products and are comfortable with that price though. Best wishes learning more about electronics.
Here is a great resource I put together to help:
https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/
It has amazing value.